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ForumindexÅkermans[Åkerman] Hydraulik

Akerman tracked excavator goes forward and backward but doesn't turn left or right

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mbreg (trådstartaren)

#1 » 13:12:38, 21-08-2015
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Does anyone have any ideas on what would make an Akerman H12BLC lose its ability to turn left or right? The tracks go forward and backward with full power but they do not turn left or right. Its a classic machine and there's hardly any Akerman machines on our side of the big pond so I'd love to keep the legacy alive and keep this one in proud working condition.

The H12B uses a forward pedal and a separate reverse pedal, and a hand lever moves left/right to control left or right steering. When the hand lever is engaged, it slows down like it wants to engage in a turn but doesn't actually turn.

A mechanic took apart the left/right steering control and we looked it over, and everything seemed to look fine. The control is of very hefty steel construction with very simple valve mechanisms and about 7 hydraulic control lines.

In terms of activities leading up to this problem, it was working fine until a track came off about 800 foot up a driveway in a woodland clearing. I put the track back on and drove it back down the 800' drive to where I park it. The left/right steering worked fine the whole way down. The track had about 8" too much slack, so I tensioned it to specs (165mm from track to center of roller). Then went to drive it and in less than 10' realized it wasn't turning. I checked out the tension and saw that I had compressed the idler spring - which the manual warns not to do, so I released all the pressure on the spring (about the same amount of slack I had before tensioning it). But after releasing the pressure I still had the issue with the excavator not turning right or left.

Any thoughts on cause/resolution? Any ideas are appreciated!
mbreg
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Blev medlem: 05:19:39, 21-08-2015
Ort: New Hampshire, US
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Maskintyp: Grävmaskin (larvburen)
Maskin: Akerman H12BLC



ianews

#2 » 14:51:27, 21-08-2015
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There are some brilliant mechanics on this Forum with long experience and I'm sure they could help you. Not as sure as to prowess in English. If you don't get any answers maybe I could help you translate? I'm from England but have lived here for 40 years.
IanM

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ianews
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Turbodiesel

#3 » 15:03:43, 21-08-2015
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Is there a electric microswitch in the hand lever?
TD´s gamla maskinteckningar.
::::
Framtiden var bättre förr..

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Turbodiesel
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mbreg (trådstartaren)

#4 » 00:37:28, 22-08-2015
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Here's an update to the above post.

My mechanic put pressure gauges inline between the steering control and the manifold/spools, and we tried each combination of Forward, Fwd R, Fwd L, Back, Back R, Back L. We got pressure as expected for all the right combinations which makes it look like the steering control is working and control pressure is appropriate going to the high pressure travel valves. So I'm baffled at what could be the issue.



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mbreg
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Blev medlem: 05:19:39, 21-08-2015
Ort: New Hampshire, US
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Maskintyp: Grävmaskin (larvburen)
Maskin: Akerman H12BLC

mbreg (trådstartaren)

#5 » 00:38:59, 22-08-2015
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ianews skrev:There are some brilliant mechanics on this Forum with long experience and I'm sure they could help you. Not as sure as to prowess in English. If you don't get any answers maybe I could help you translate? I'm from England but have lived here for 40 years.



I'd really appreciate help with a translation if you don't mind! It would be great to be able to get advice from people who have a lot of experience with these machines! thanks, Mike
mbreg
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Blev medlem: 05:19:39, 21-08-2015
Ort: New Hampshire, US
International
Maskintyp: Grävmaskin (larvburen)
Maskin: Akerman H12BLC

mbreg (trådstartaren)

#6 » 00:41:18, 22-08-2015
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Turbodiesel skrev:Is there a electric microswitch in the hand lever?



There's an electric switch at the base of the lever that gets actuated when the lever moves, and I believe is responsible for slowing the machine down when the operator uses the steering control to steer it left or right. The machine still slows down when the steering control is moved left or right, but the machine doesn't actually turn at all to the left or right, forward, backward or contra-rotation.
mbreg
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Blev medlem: 05:19:39, 21-08-2015
Ort: New Hampshire, US
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Maskintyp: Grävmaskin (larvburen)
Maskin: Akerman H12BLC

Turbodiesel

#7 » 00:57:04, 22-08-2015
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Don´t forget to check the servo pressure, it should be stable and at (i believe) 65bar/6.5MPa, too low pressure is often responsible for a lot of different faults and symptoms.

In what unit are you measuring? Bar, PSI?
TD´s gamla maskinteckningar.
::::
Framtiden var bättre förr..

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Turbodiesel
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mbreg (trådstartaren)

#8 » 01:27:21, 22-08-2015
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Turbodiesel skrev:Don´t forget to check the servo pressure, it should be stable and at (i believe) 65bar/6.5MPa, too low pressure is often responsible for a lot of different faults and symptoms.

In what unit are you measuring? Bar, PSI?



We're measuring in PSI between the steering control and valve manifold. Where are you referring to to measure servo pressure?

The machine runs strong forward and backward so it seems that there's sufficient pressure to operate the valves. I just can't figure out why if the steering control is working, why the track motors wouldn't be operating independently so that they turn rather than just go in unison forward and backward.
mbreg
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Blev medlem: 05:19:39, 21-08-2015
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Maskin: Akerman H12BLC

prosten

#9 » 01:33:23, 22-08-2015
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We are more used to bar or MPa on this side of the pond. So it seems that you have between 500-800 PSI and that would be equal to 34-55 bar...

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prosten
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mbreg (trådstartaren)

#10 » 01:30:01, 23-08-2015
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Someone provided the below hydraulic schematic and suggested that 6a has a setting that locks left and right track motors in series, controlled by 14a - possibly a solenoid, which sounds like it could very well be the issue. Does anyone know what kind of a sensor this would be? Maybe a speed sensor to keep from turning if the machine is going too fast downhill or something like that?

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mbreg
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Blev medlem: 05:19:39, 21-08-2015
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Maskin: Akerman H12BLC

mbreg (trådstartaren)

#11 » 01:32:05, 23-08-2015
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Here's a view of the full schematic...

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mbreg
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Blev medlem: 05:19:39, 21-08-2015
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Maskin: Akerman H12BLC

Turbodiesel

#12 » 01:59:14, 23-08-2015
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No speed sensor in this circuit, no electrics at all in the undercarriage. On the other side the speed is almost the same both up & downhill.

The switch in the hand lever are supposed to shift 6a to parallel mode (low-speed), to make it possible to steer.


1d is the servo-pump, and 2d the servo relief valve.
TD´s gamla maskinteckningar.
::::
Framtiden var bättre förr..

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mbreg (trådstartaren)

#13 » 04:43:05, 23-08-2015
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Here's the electrical schematic for the H12b:


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mbreg
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Blev medlem: 05:19:39, 21-08-2015
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Maskin: Akerman H12BLC

mbreg (trådstartaren)

#14 » 03:27:41, 24-08-2015
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Thanks for the ideas about the hand lever switching to parallel mode, I hadn't thought about a possible electrical problem previously. I checked the panel today and saw a blown fuse and replaced it and was able to turn again! ..briefly, then was unable to turn again even though the fuse didn't blow again. So maybe an issue with the wire, switch or solenoid.

I scoured the schematics and wiring diagrams in my H12b parts manual and an H16 manual but didn't see anything in them other than the speed select switches. Looking at the machine, I can see the switch on the steering lever, the speed switch on the panel, and a valve/solenoid on the high pressure valve manifold, which has the 2 travel spools along with 6 other spools. Here's a picture of the valve/solenoid there. Also, here's a picture from the bottom of the center passage.

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mbreg
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Blev medlem: 05:19:39, 21-08-2015
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Maskin: Akerman H12BLC

Turbodiesel

#15 » 03:55:09, 24-08-2015
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The solenoid valve on the high pressure valve stack i guess is for boom floatation mode. The #14a valve for series-parallel operates with servo pressure and is found along with the other servo-related valves (in front of the valve room?).

Check if you have power to the solenoids, and measure electric resistance in the spools (compare with a known working one), and test them disconnected from the system with 24V.

Do you have the schematics in a zoomable format (PDF?)
TD´s gamla maskinteckningar.
::::
Framtiden var bättre förr..

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Turbodiesel
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