Druid's 'Drema's Druidfab Attachments !!

**#406** » 17:38:51, 17-09-2016

An even better idea :thumme:

**#407** » 22:13:57, 17-09-2016

Holger skrev:
V8Druid skrev:Msg me your email addy Jac and I will send you the original file .....

Also send it to webbmaster@maskinisten.net and I will add it to this thread.

Thanks Holger .... this is how a good forum should be run, here :cool:

...... just wish I could read Swedish :vissla:

Everyone's always very helpful and obliging with their posts in English though .... it is really appreciated :buga:

as is the help :vissla:

**#408** » 22:35:36, 17-09-2016

I got your schematic image. The larger size helped but the picture is not that focused. Being the resourceful man you are I'm sure you can come up with a good quality schematic image. I don't care if takes up 10Mb.

Nevertheless I made some comments on the one I got and attached it here. These comments were made assuming that the machine is still losing functions as described earlier in the thread.

There are damping orifices in two different places on the LS-signal line. Check that they are not partly clogged by debris
There is the LS-relief valve on the main valve block. Check if there is debris holding it partly open and check for bad o-rings
The third valve I believe is just for draining the LS line when the joysticks are all in neutral. Excessive draining here will make you loose LS-signal pressure. While a clogged orifice here would potentially help your case, there is still a moving part that could be stuck open and cause excessive draining of the LS-signal.

**#409** » 00:06:07, 18-09-2016

Jac skrev:I got your schematic image. The larger size helped but the picture is not that focused. Being the resourceful man you are I'm sure you can come up with a good quality schematic image. I don't care if takes up 10Mb.

Nevertheless I made some comments on the one I got and attached it here. These comments were made assuming that the machine is still losing functions as described earlier in the thread.

There are damping orifices in two different places on the LS-signal line. Check that they are not partly clogged by debris
There is the LS-relief valve on the main valve block. Check if there is debris holding it partly open and check for bad o-rings
The third valve I believe is just for draining the LS line when the joysticks are all in neutral. Excessive draining here will make you loose LS-signal pressure. While a clogged orifice here would potentially help your case, there is still a moving part that could be stuck open and cause excessive draining of the LS-signal.

Thanks Jac ...... but can't open the file :aaargh:

neither Adobe reader or full Acrobat will open it :aaargh:

I can see the 0.8 and 1.2mm throttles in the schematic, but God knows where they're going to be physically ..... I'd guess in the block .... possibly here?

Originalets URL: http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y450/v8druid/Hydrema%20Troubles/WP_20160912_15_11_32_Pro_zpsz0cbj3qg.jpg

where the line exits the main valve block and is fed to X on the pump P2 ??

Originalets URL: http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y450/v8druid/Hydrema%20Troubles/WP_20160906_18_24_53_Pro_zps5krqiu7w.jpg

Can't really see where else it could be ??? :???:

...... not bad for access though :vissla:

Am I correct in assuming/believing that each service also has an RV in its ports/system, similar to the main RV .... they look physically similar to the main RV ??? :???:

but the symbols for them are different in the schematic, especially in the schematic on Page 12 .....??

Originalets URL: http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y450/v8druid/Hydrema%20Troubles/WP_20160906_18_25_22_Pro_zpsoivrmwop.jpg

She's had a few hours work out this evening :smile:

..... grab on and up the ramp, to tidy up all the lumps of rubble lying about, then picked out some large lumps of tree from behind those 12" perforated pipes, that I couldn't get at/handle manually. :thumme:

Then back down, grabbed the 3ft Geith bucket, which was full of yet more rubble, back up and tipped it on the heap, back down and parked the Geith where I can get at it from the 'hard'. :smile:

Grabbed a small boulder and stuck it beside the boulder heap

.... and lost the boom a couple of times :sad:

.... wait a few seconds and it's back, but it was the first time it did it all evening??? :???:

Dropped the grab off and put 5 ft grader onto the Hill, ...... back up the ramp for a square up and fill the ruts she'd created, up and down :uupps:

.... still soft but not claggy :thumme:

... 'least, it doesn't stick to the wheels. :grin:

Performed fine ??
Boulder wasn't heavy :???:

.. maybe half a tonne max.?? :vissla:

Anyway ..... Sunday or not, I'm gonna have a shufty in the morning, at the ground up at the tank site and if it's drive-able, it is gonna have to have it. :thummar:

Can't see it getting any drier under foot than it is now. :huh:

Hopefully she will not let me down again and I can get all done that needs doing :thumme:

.... 'sposed to pee down tomorrow night !!! :aaargh:

Originalets URL: http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y450/v8druid/WP_20160917_18_47_51_Pro_zpsacceosds.jpg

Originalets URL: http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y450/v8druid/WP_20160917_18_23_03_Pro_zpsizwxngyj.jpg

shot down for 500ltrs of cherry (red diesel), yesterday lunchtime and got back to find my one drum weeping !!!!!!

Rushing around trying to get it off and emptied, I walked straight into the Hill at head level :aaargh:

.... bloody peaked cap ... can't see anything just above eye level !!! :screwy:

After I'd picked my self up off the deck, having had a five minute rub of the rapidly growing egg on me head, :sad:

while I was down there and cursed my stupidity, I thought "that was a bloody stupid thing to do" :aaargh:

I've had a pounding head, ever since and possibly a slight dose of concussion, as I ain't felt right since doing it ..... was like getting whacked with an iron bar ..... or a Hill QH!!!! :uupps:

One hell of a thud .... good job I had the hat on, or would've split me head open, but if I hadn't had it on, I'd have seen the bloody Hill ..... chicken and egg !!!!! LOL!! :screwy:

Let's hope she behaves herself tomorrow, :sad:

but at least I have a much better idea of what /why if she gives me trouble again and won't be such an OMG / WTF moment !!!! :uupps:

She is deffo 'different' though!!??

Whereas before, if you, for example, full stick-ed her, and came up against the dead end, she would load the pump, now she doesn't complain, just dumps, but doesn't lose services ???? :???:

....
inadvertently 'full sticking' her would always cause her to grunt/complain ... same with full extension on the VA cylinder or the lift rams ...... now it does sometimes, but not every time ???? :???:

..... more often it doesn't grunt/complain ? :???:

It is a VERY different drive!! :???:

**#410** » 01:57:47, 18-09-2016

Mailed you the comments. Like I mentioned before, dead ending should NOT put a heavy load on the engine.

If you are dead ending a function, do all other functions stop working as well?

**#411** » 02:13:27, 18-09-2016

Jac skrev:Mailed you the comments. Like I mentioned before, dead ending should NOT put a heavy load on the engine.

If you are dead ending a function, do all other functions stop working as well?

Hi Jac, just looking at it ... thanks for emailing it back ..... "the LS drain??" is i believe No. 3 in the pic of the block VW1 in the post above and is a flow limiter to the slew spool from P2/main valve block, for additional power to the slew?
there is also a 3 which should be 13 ... last item on the list, which is confusing !! :aaargh:

can't imagine where that 'un-sized' third orifice is .... unless it's behind a plug ..... there are 3 in the block, one of which is marked MLs ??

As for your Q above ..... no it doesn't stop all other functions :???:

and I agree with you, now I know how the LS system works ... it should not load the pump at all ??????? :???:

the balanced MRV should let go even if the LS doesn't down-stroke the pump ??? :???:

**#412** » 09:06:52, 18-09-2016

V8Druid skrev:
I can see the 0.8 and 1.2mm throttles in the schematic, but God knows where they're going to be physically ..... I'd guess in the block .... possibly here?

Originalets URL: http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y450/v8druid/Hydrema%20Troubles/WP_20160912_15_11_32_Pro_zpsz0cbj3qg.jpg

where the line exits the main valve block and is fed to X on the pump P2 ??

Yes, that long yellow hexagon barrel may very well contain the dual orifice/check valve setup. Also, if you unscrew it from the block you should stick a 3 or 4 mm allen wrench in the hole in the main block and fish for that third orifice. It may or may not be in there. It could be that it was replaced by that external one but the schematic was never updated. You should check the MLs port as well even though MLs is just a measuring port for LS.

V8Druid skrev:Am I correct in assuming/believing that each service also has an RV in its ports/system, similar to the main RV .... they look physically similar to the main RV ??? but the symbols for them are different in the schematic, especially in the schematic on Page 12 .....??

Originalets URL: http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y450/v8druid/Hydrema%20Troubles/WP_20160906_18_25_22_Pro_zpsoivrmwop.jpg

Yes, those are shock valves. The check valve in the middle is of course anticavitation valve. Apart from that symbol looks more like a pilotcontrolled relief and I would think shock valves are direct acting. The symbols are most likely straight from the BoschRexroth datasheet and BoRex knows their shit so I'm not gonna argue anymore about that.
These can of course fail as well but then symptoms are limited to only that function.

V8Druid skrev:Grabbed a small boulder and stuck it beside the boulder heap .... and lost the boom a couple of times .... wait a few seconds and it's back, but it was the first time it did it all evening???

Sounds like debris floating around near an orifice.

V8Druid skrev:Rushing around trying to get it off and emptied, I walked straight into the Hill at head level .... bloody peaked cap ... can't see anything just above eye level !!!
After I'd picked my self up off the deck, having had a five minute rub of the rapidly growing egg on me head, while I was down there and cursed my stupidity, I thought "that was a bloody stupid thing to do"
I've had a pounding head, ever since and possibly a slight dose of concussion, as I ain't felt right since doing it ..... was like getting whacked with an iron bar ..... or a Hill QH!!!!

One hell of a thud .... good job I had the hat on, or would've split me head open, but if I hadn't had it on, I'd have seen the bloody Hill ..... chicken and egg !!!!! LOL!!

Even I with my limited shop time have managed to walk into an excavator quick coupler hanging at head height. I reckon more people have managed to do that on the forum. It stops you right there. I don't think it's stupid but in my case it was bloody for sure.

V8Druid skrev:She is deffo 'different' though!!??

Whereas before, if you, for example, full stick-ed her, and came up against the dead end, she would load the pump, now she doesn't complain, just dumps, but doesn't lose services ???? ....
inadvertently 'full sticking' her would always cause her to grunt/complain ... same with full extension on the VA cylinder or the lift rams ...... now it does sometimes, but not every time ???? ..... more often it doesn't grunt/complain ?

It is a VERY different drive!!

This is a step in the right direction for sure.

V8Druid skrev:Hi Jac, just looking at it ... thanks for emailing it back ..... "the LS drain??" is i believe No. 3 in the pic of the block VW1 in the post above and is a flow limiter to the slew spool from P2/main valve block, for additional power to the slew?

What makes you think that? The slew has it's own pump. One of the key things for a good excavator hydraulic system if you ask me is that the slew is not affected by ANYTHING ELSE. This is not always the case of course but it does make sense.
That high quality schematic that you are about to post would be really usful now...

It is common for the LS-signal line to be drained to tank by the main valve spools when all joysticks are in neutral. This is a flowsharing LS valve (LUDV as BoschRexroth calls it) and the LS is not drained to tank via the spools in neutral as far as I can see. Hence, the tiny flow controller (no 3) that goes from the LS line to tank. I reckon 1 lpm or so goes through it so it's tiny. Without it, the pump would hold the pressure for a long time after you put the joysticks in neutral. A simple orifice wouldn't do since the flow would vary too much with pressure. Interestingly enough, the one in the data sheet has a tiny filter/screen in front of it...

**#413** » 09:16:07, 18-09-2016

V8Druid skrev:and I agree with you, now I know how the LS system works ... it should not load the pump at all ???????

That is correct!

V8Druid skrev:the balanced MRV should let go even if the LS doesn't down-stroke the pump ???

No. The MRV should be set a 20 or 30 bar higher than the pressure regulator on the pump. It's really more of a back up safety if things go wrong.
Edit: I see now that the pump is set to 275(?) bar and the MRV to 320 bar, so they are 45 bar apart.

**#414** » 09:24:37, 18-09-2016

Here is the schematic as a ZIP-file.

One hint: dont use RAR, use ZIP. It is built in in Windows.

**#415** » 01:49:28, 24-09-2016

apologies for having gone 'quiet' :vissla:

....... more comprehensive post tomorrow :thumme:

not been the greatest last w/end and earlier in the week :sad:

....... head butting the Hill QH may have contributed :???:

Just trying to upload a zip file for you Jac :thumme:

Min Youtube-kanal · **#416** » 07:45:27, 24-09-2016

Now we´re talking! :grin:

The resolution could've been even better with a newer camera but I hope Jac can manage to read everything. I will have to salute you for managing to keep your Canon IXUS 60 camera intact for 10 years! I've gone through... four cameras in that time... :vissla:

**#417** » 10:49:26, 24-09-2016

Jac skrev:
V8Druid skrev:and I agree with you, now I know how the LS system works ... it should not load the pump at all ???????

That is correct!

V8Druid skrev:the balanced MRV should let go even if the LS doesn't down-stroke the pump ???

No. The MRV should be set a 20 or 30 bar higher than the pressure regulator on the pump. It's really more of a back up safety if things go wrong.
Edit: I see now that the pump is set to 275(?) bar and the MRV to 320 bar, so they are 45 bar apart.

I see now I was looking at the wrong pump and the wrong valve. The main pump does not actually have a pressure limiting spool.
However, the valve in the blue circle is the LS pressure relief and it will do about the same thing. When 320 bar is reached it will open and cause the pump to downstroke so that there will never be a reason for the main relief valve (in red) to open.
Edit: Maybe not so obvious but when the LS relief valve opens at 320 bar it will cause the LS compensator spool (yellow in next post) to shift over, and THAT will cause the pump to downstroke.

**#418** » 11:07:00, 24-09-2016

Yellow is the LS compensator of the main pump, it will try to keep a 22 bar pressure drop across the main valve block. It makes sure that the pump doesn't produce more oil than what is needed.

The green is the power limiting spool of the main pump.
The power limiting spool senses:
-main pump pressure (I assume, there is no line indicating this) --- Edit: the vertical rod below/left of the green is actually a piston. It's connected to pump pressure.
-main pump swivel angle
-slew pump pressure
Based on this it will limit the swivel angle of the main pump if too much flow AND pressure is used at the same time. This prevents overloading the diesel engine.

The orange is a LS compensator for the slew pump. In this system it doesn't do anything at all since the slew function is open center and not LS.

The blue is the pressure limiting spool for the slew pump.

**#419** » 11:25:04, 24-09-2016

This is one of the reasons I asked for a higher resolution picture, the connecting dots are hard to see.
This is my take on the slewing system.
Blue is tank
Red is pump
Purple is outline of the valve block sections

**#420** » 23:06:17, 24-09-2016

ja-bond77 skrev:Now we´re talking! The resolution could've been even better with a newer camera but I hope Jac can manage to read everything. I will have to salute you for managing to keep your Canon IXUS 60 camera intact for 10 years! I've gone through... four cameras in that time...

Would've been 14.2Mp Ja :thumme:

..... but the battery was flat in my Kodak DCS Pro DSLR :sad: