Druidfab VA-r

[V8Druid]

I hope I have this in the right section as it has been an ongoing project for a while now, but is also an attachment for my machine?
Anyone who has read my intro. will know that I purchased a Hydrema Weimar M1500 last year, to replace a JCB 3CX, which had become 'outgunned' on a.n.other project of mine.
Well I also had a need to be able to rotate my forks that I had built for it, (another thread perhaps), so set about constructing a rotary device to fit between my Miller hitch and the forks.

I had, ?stashed away?, from way back; a rotator unit, that I?d acquired off the back of my scrappy?s truck one day, which had been attached to an FLT carriage with a long 12ft spike stuck out of it, which someone had managed to snap!!!!!
(In hindsight I should?ve had the spike too ? IIRC it was 70mm and ?kin hard!!!!!)
They?re used for handling rolls of carpet apparently?

Some pic.s below of a spike for attaching to forks and a rotator with a set of forks attached ? can not find an image of exactly what I?ve just described, but I?m sure you get my drift!!









So - the rotater - Many moons ago, in another life, I?d used said animal to make a bar bending machine for a large order, for 2000 x 20mm dia bar, odd leg staples for BWW for canal bank stabilisation, when I ran my fabrication business.

I don?t have a pic of the actual staples, with odd legs of 1000mm / 600 mm with a 30 mm rad. bend. but there?s a pic below of some shorter ones for a different job!






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I set about stripping the excess off the rotator, which had formed the bar bender unit.


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Having sussed what needed to come off and set it out, in light of the heat from the gas axe, I reckoned it would be ?sensible? to get the ?ring gear? out of harm?s way and avoid cooking the seals on it.


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Thought it a good idea too, to have a good look at it, before going to all the effort.


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All looked fine, so the top plate came off, for a look at the pinion and ready to progress it.


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Followed by the ring gear itself, after checking it for wear an? tear ? no lift at all!! (But then it hadn?t exactly had a hard life really!!)


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Gas axe time!!!!


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Well that slimmed it down a bit!!
Lot of head scratching went in to this bit, before ?sparking up? the torch!! Only had the one and didn?t want any cock ups!!!!


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Assembly time!!


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Having got it all positioned, tried and fine tuned/fettled, I got it all tacked up..............


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.................Enough to give it a trial fitting!!


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The front pin is only a 65mm as I didn't at this time have any other spare 70mm pins

Had to keep the pins ?high? to avoid the hitch making contact with the pinion housing, between the brackets/cheeks.


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Looked a pretty fair fit, so knocked out a few more gussets and stiffeners, assembled ?em up ........


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..............And got ?em in place!


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Now for some very careful and planned sequential welding up, to stop the lil? bugger warping/twisting/generally getting out of shape!!


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[V8Druid]

Still got it ? no slag inclusions in there !! Not done any welding in close to 3 years


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Stick?s ok, but just so slooooooow and does put so much more heat into the job!! Hence the careful sequencing, for welding it all up!
Got there in the end and all nice and flat/square/true/etc..
Flipped it over, ready to refit the ring gear, after giving it all a damned good clean.


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All went back together ?sweet as? and checked my setting out for the lower pick up cheeks, just to be sure, like !!


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Before setting up the top plate, securely clamped to 30mm of bench top with some ?proper? G clamps!!!!!


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Got it all set up and clamped up before tacking up for assembly.


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Followed by lots more ? you guessed it ? sequential weld up.


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Bit extra under the pins, just to be sure, but it ain?t coming off there!!
Left it overnight to cool down fully, before offering it up in the a.m., for a fit and re-assembling it back to the ring gear.


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Mission accomplished!!

Knocked out 8 new pins from my bar of 70 mm BDMS and end plated ?em, as I was a few short for a try out!!


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Sat her down at a convenient height to set about plumbing it up far a ?trial run?.........


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.......planning to borrow the rotate circuit pipes off my grab, for now, with some strategically placed QCs to keep everything oil tight, whilst they ?assisted the mission? !

HOWEVER!!!!

[V8Druid]

As I was building the rotator I am thinking why not !!
Not a lot more effort required really ? just a bit more head scratching and few more plates, bits and pieces and it could be done!!

I will let the pix do the talking for a little while here guys!


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Thought I had better stick a lift point on!!


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The braces were to stop the ends pulling over in the weld up ? worked just fine, as usual.


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Pivot bosses were aligned with a long 2ft. shaft. I had to tack two 2in. pins together in a Vee block, as I did not have a piece of 2in. to hand!!


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Trial fit and set up the rotator shoe's bosses, to tack in situ, prior to weld up.


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Seemed OK!


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Pin out ready to separate for welding up the bosses.


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Moment of truth !!!!
Re-assembly after welding everything solid ! and it is never a foregone conclusion!


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Happily the pin went in as sweet as a nut. The long pin is only a temporary measure whilst assembling it and was to be replaced with two 45mm end pins, bushed in the 2in. CDS bosses with a JCB split spring steel bush, dipper end/tip links - perfect fit in the CDS, bolted to the outer frame and plenty of grease nipples!!

First try!


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I had been aiming for max. VA with this and could well have reduced the build height by around 80mm if I had been content with 40-45 deg.s, but as a regular comment I see is
"wish I had more", I thought I ought to be aiming for more !!
(and I have got some steep-ish banks I want to batter off too)


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Obviously there was a lot more to do yet, but I had broken the back of the heavy bits and had pretty well gotten the geometry sussed in my head for the ram set up. It'll never be as pretty as the custom built, pre-formed forging offerings, but should stick the pace, hopefully


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My preliminary calculations were putting the ram stroke at circa 680 to 710/720mm to achieve the max either way!


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I had considered using something along the lines of the set up below, but was confused as to why all 'the competition' use double acters, as I could see no logic in it, as each ram is acting against its opposite number and it is just more plumbing, with a double ram set up?
Same went for tilt grader buckets - why doubles if fitted with two rams?









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My other major 'ponder' was whether to go for trunnion / gimbal mounted, or top mounted in a similar manner to some Scandy tilt graders - not as pretty, but a damned sight easier and cheaper. The jury was still out on this one!

(See above for some examples of the mount set ups)


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Well - It went round and round

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I had a couple of sources for getting some rams made up, with inquiries already made for both mount options and had the plumbing reasonably sorted in my head.
Flowfit do a nice line in 24V solenoid diverter valves and the rotate service more than adequately provided the oil supply, so as they say ? watch this space ..................!

[V8Druid]

right - having got this far it was time to dream up a tilt mechanism for the VA-rotor and to suss the next step's geometry out - having got that done and sorted I had to now knock it all out


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Damn I miss my workshop!!


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And my MIGs!!!!!

I have been looking for a 3 phase genny to run the MIGs I cwtched aside, but not found one yet.!!


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Got to stop those cheeks closing up when you're stick welding them on!!

Just by way of a bit of a tease........... full tilt to the left!


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59 degrees

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Curiously I could get 60 degs to the right, but having investigated, it was down to the original brackets I utilised being slightly different, side to side.
My originally hoped for 68 deg.s had to be forsaken a little, in favour of a slightly more sensible 60 to make other things achievable - all will be explained.

Being 'greedy' on the tilt (which is the biggest complaint I used to see posted on the UK forum I belong to - "not enough tilt") had its downsides when trying to achieve this with minimal outlay/not being able to find suitable multi-stage rams!!
To get from max. to min. tilt, left to right requires 645mm of rod stroke and to achieve this with single stage rams means just that.
I couldn't find anything aside from six or seven hundred mil stroke-ers, which are 910mm centres, closed!!
So you'll understand why it developed as it did. It could however be re-jigged, should some suitable multi-stage rams 'pop up', in the future, with very little effort, or alterations and would really 'make it'.

I'm pretty sure though that it'll do a reasonable job in the meantime!!

So.........
here are some more pix for you all with a few notations to each, by way of explanations as to what each one shows!!

Sussing geometry for the top cylinder mounts and clearances......
Full right

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and full left

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making sense of the dimensions and my thoughts!!


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the basic kit of bits required ........

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less a few holes and some hot sticks!!!!!

Assembling the 'basic kit' after adding a few holes in suitable places and a bit more head scatching

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well that is one. Now to make the other three to match it!!

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well not quite actually - two handed pairs!!

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Just to complicate it!! I had to achieve some degree of offset in them too, to accommodate the extra width of the the rod eye pick up brackets when they're closed !!

achieving pin alignment was crucial in the set up, which meant they were a bit of a handful to actually get set up just right, but I got there!!

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left side stitched up and on/in position

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the right side got set up the same and wrestled into position.

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Then it was lots of welding to firm it up!!


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Until I ended up with this lump!!

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having lifted it back onto the rotator, it was time to see if it would fit ....... without any fouling/f**k ups!!!!!!

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which it did !!

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now it was time to see if those nice new rams will fit too


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150 psi of air power was a lot dryer and far more preferable for a bit of motion sussing than oil - plus, it wasn't going to break anything, if it wasn't all it was meant to be, in the clearances dept.

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Having got both rams pinned in, it was time to see what we'd got.........
.........full left

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and full right

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This was the reason for the offset in the top pin bracketry assembly .......

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I am going to have to be careful crowding, hence the reason for the desire for some multi-stage rams, to be able to reduce the need for that top pin height!!

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However - it'll do for now as they say!!

[V8Druid]

it now had to come back to bits again, for some more gussets, now that I had sussed clearances, etc.

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a few modifications to aid pipe routing .....

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and to suss out all the plumbing !

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The jury was still out on the Cetop positioning........

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But I eventually made a decision!

I had initially considered using 6 way diverter valves to control the VA-r, using my rotate and VA boom pedals, but after much thought I opted to use just the rotate pedal, for one way proportional supply and put Cetop control valves in the VA-r itself to reverse the flow to the tilt rams and the rotate motor. These will be controlled from buttons on the sticks, but I am getting ahead of myself here - there is a lot to come before we get to these

Set it up to deal with curves and spread out an asbestos blanket to keep the spatter/spelter out of the ring!


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gas axe didn't do the poor old blanket a lot of good and had to cover it a bit with some plate, but got the lumps out.


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Spent a while with old faithful 5" and a 4" grinders and a flap wheel on tidying it all up and sorting out all the sharps.
I also added some reinforcing to the pin carrier end plates, with a second 20mm layer on both halves, amongst other things and I will be gutted if I manage to bend it after that !!


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finished off with a couple of holes into the pivot points and tapped them for some grease nipples.


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nipples installed and and ran out of light again that day!!


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Had to get the pins made up for the swivels so she could go back together again for yet more sussing!!

Having cleaned up the one half of the rotor, I thought it would be a good idea to get some cover on it, before it goes rusty again!!
I only had two small holes to drill in it, for two SHCS (socket head cap screws to hold the manifold in place


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Also got a bracket made up for the electrical feed socket, a coat of paint on it and bolted to the dipper, with the socket fitted to it.


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Used a very convenient spare hose clamp base plate to attach it with.


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I was mid way through getting the wiring into it and connected to the socket base, when my apprentice, who had been sat watching me carefully, decided he wanted to get down, from his perch on high!!


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Sparticus ? the ?bionic? cat !!

He had a complete ?back end? rebuild at about 18 months old, by a truly remarkable orthopedic veterinary surgeon, after dislocating both his hips and tearing the lower half of his right leg almost completely off, bar the flap of skin that was holding it, when he dragged himself through the cat flap early one Sunday morning !!!!

If I ever need my legs working on I know who I?d want fixing me ? both his hips are screwed, pinned and wired in place and he?s still got several pins and screws in his right lower leg.
You?d never think it to watch him get about and that was ten years ago.

You do not want to know what he cost me!!!!!!!

When Monsoon conditions prevailed, I did what I could inside for the day -such a day saw my attentions directed to revising the Cetop loom (see previous pictures for the subtle changes) and a few other fiddly bits.


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I needed to get a clear route over the top of the valve block!!


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Wasn't such a bad job, once I took the bull by the horns and pulled the original apart.


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Turned a few plug's guts around and altered a few cable lengths!!

I think it looks better than the original version!!

[Mats i Myrhult]

Breathtaking! Why buy ready made!

[V8Druid]

Breathtaking! Why buy ready made!

Kind words indeed Mats - thank you.
It's been a bit of a 'tester' and continues to be so.
Almost there though!!

There are advantages to 'ready made' - you buy it, you fit it , you use it However I could not reasonably justify (to myself) the cost of a 'ready made', for my private use ........... and I love a challenge!!

Gra

[V8Druid]

a few more gussets to the upper half's tilt ram mounts, while it was apart


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This ought to stiffen up any tendency for it to twist

[V8Druid]

sussed out and mocked up the pipe routing using some old 'gash' pipes. Virtually had it in my head, but needed to see how it sat.
Looked OK to me at least

Had been wrestling for weeks with the issue of getting the feed and return into the middle of the VA-rotor, as I'd not a lot of space either side, due to the 60 degs of tilt and it's a lot of movement for pipes, when I had a Eureka moment.

Plumb it through the centre swivel pins - 50mm pin with a 1/2" hole - no prob.s!!

Pin is fixed to the upper half of the unit and STATIONARY all the time - a couple of swivel unions in the centre of the pins, in the unit to pick 'em up and they've got all the 120 degs of movement they need.


I plumbed for 1/2" feeds from them and the pipe will about manage the routing. (The pipes in the pix are just gash to try out with)

This was option 1


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Option 2 (for the motor feeds which are only quarter inch) - pressure feed will be at the rear and tank return at the front of the VA-r.
A few swept 15s and 30s on the fitting tails will also help, but gives the general idea


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Option 3 for the tank line - real short and out the way - couple of 90s and it'll be perfect!


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A swept 30, off the pressure feed swivel and a 90 t'other end kept it real neat - needed to keep the central area as open as poss. for the tilt ram feed pipes and I think - correction, I knew it was do-able.

It was good to mock it up with a few gash-ers - makes it so much easier to envisage.


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It became an easier proposition than I thought with the swivel unions.

There were also two fitted on the manifold to feed the tilt rams too and some tees on the underside of the upper half feeding virtually stationary tilt ram pipes !!

Don't yer jus' love it when a plan comes together!

I've got the incomers solidly connected to the pins on the outer face Stu and connected through inline rotary couplers inside - they can can cope with 200rpm at 200 bar so should be fine with 120 deg.s of movement from full left to full right tilt.
The tilt ram feeds from the Cetop manifold to the underside of the top half, where it'll tee off to the rams, have also got a rotary per circuit which'll feed from the manifold as it tilts.

I think I've got all movements covered.


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The only small issue was the fact that the tilt feeds didn't rotate from the actual centre, but are virtually on a centre line, at the manifold outputs, so I had to have a bit of extra length to these, to allow for the off centre rotations and they'll flex, reducing the distance between the centre of the underside of the upper half and the manifold ports - would be about 30mm by my reckoning, which would be fine on a 300-ish pipe run length - jury was still out on whether I went 3/8" with these to the tees or 1/4" - favorite was 3/8", feeding two 1/4" tees, supplying top/bottom of each ram.

It's why I had to keep the central area in there clear, for this movement!!

[Johanivära]

Really good job !

[V8Druid]

Really good job !

Thanks, it has been quite a challenge, but has kept me out of mischief

Looking forward to using it shortly

by way of amusement - this is the off-cut from my 20 foot bar of 100 x 12mm flat for the top ram brackets!!


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Reckon I got that about right on the 'nesting' eh?

[V8Druid]

[Grävmaskiner] The Druid's Duck Hunt !!

[jörgen.ottosson]

seams to be coming to gather nicely.

( this might be a bit ahead of time, but what kind of controls have You got in mind for the rotor-tilter? .....I suppose, You´ll get to that, eventually, butt I´m curios..... )

[dc_lindberg]

Nice. Neat. Impressive!

[V8Druid]

Nice. Neat. Impressive!

As you rightly say " Why just do something when you can make it so beautifully complicated "

I'm a bit fastidious with what I do and like to have things 'right' - as the old saying goes, "if it looks right it probably is right" !!

Thanks for the kind words though (and the PM)

Graham